Hydroponics, Soilless or Coco
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Hey thanks for the reply and happy new year to all of you. Im doing fine and hope you too :). Ok i think with two weeks of flushing should be fine if next grow doesn’t show me those problems. I did mold tests in the grow room and some rooms of my house and the chart from the mold test said i have perfect air without any hidden mold problems. I also have a bacteria test for the water that i will test the next days with my osmosis water. But i don’t think it is contaminated and all the problems have more to do with my techniques and maybe my environment. My humidity is so god damn low at the plants tops its only 25% and at the bottom its around 35-40%. So for my next grow i will get a GSE humidity/temperature controller that i will plug to the exhaust ventilaton and i also get a humidifier to bring the humidity in perfect conditions. I read that low humidity will force the plants to uptake more water and also nutrients so if its too dry i would need lower amounts of nutrients or they burn way faster than plants with an ideal environment. I also think that could be the problems i always get. I lowered the nutrients to a point where they got a calcium deficiency but the darker leafs didn’t go away and maybe because of the low humidity they get N toxic but if i go down with the strength they show me the calcium deficiency because with the lower strength there isn’t enough calcium in it and i would need to apply a calmag product. I think it’s the best to optimize the environment and do another grow to find out if that solve the problem or if it continues it must be something else. I try to bring everything in perfect condition so im sure its not an environmental issue. The weird thing is with soil i never had any dramatic problems but i didn’t grow in the growbox i have now. I did grow in a normal room where i hang the lamps and added a small exhaust, i used biobizz light/allmix and their fertilizers so everything was bio and i read its harder to overfeed with biofertilizers. I got the growbox as a set with 2x600watt and a exhaust with 1100m3/h and i think that the exhaust is waay to huge and that’s also causing the low humidity plus the hps lamps dry out the air. And if i would buy another exhaust that is not as powerful as the one i have right now i maybe get too high humidity in late flower and the best option is just to buy a controller for the exhaust and maybe a humidifier, a dehumidifier should not be needed with the controller where i can set the humidity for each stage and my exhaust will easily dry the air down if needed :’D. And all the problems i have with coco i don’t know why that didn’t happen with biobizz but I think the big room i did grow the plants in Biobizz just had a good environment and in a bigger room the humidity and temperature are more stable than in the growbox i use now. I also wrote with many guys on the internet and they never had those weird problems with advanced nutrients but there environment were in perfect conditions. Do you think that the growbox set i bought has a exhaust that is way too powerful? The temperature in the growbox are pretty good. Around 25°C but the low humidity isn’t ideal. I don’t know how powerful the exhaust should be so i bought a set on the internet from a grow shop. If i would have the old room again would be the best option but can’t take the room again and needed the growbox i have right now. I also found that the biobizz soil had a way more fluffy structure than the coco i use right now and i watered in soil after the first centimeters of the top were dry. Coco feels way more spongy and holds more water than the biobizz soils but im maybe wrong what im saying. The one plant i took out of the growbox at the beginning of the the flowering had poor developed roots but the other plants in the growbox have the coco completely outgrown and there are more roots than coco 😀 the roots looking white thick n healthy so it should be not a watering problem. I need to water one time per day or the coco is completely dry the next day and i use 7L pots. I don’t think i will use bigger pots next grow but maybe get some airpots for the plants and if the temperature and humidity are under control the airpots would also help to bring more oxygen into the rootzone/coco.
Hi thanks for the reply. The bad stored nutrients could be the problem because in Germany nearly nobody uses advanced nutrients and they always in discount in the shops i buy them so uf they would cost lets say 100euro they have 30% discount and only cost 70euros. The bottles it says to store them at 20°C and my room i store them have the temperature. In summer its sometimes 25°C and i will store them the next time in a colder room if its too hit in this room. But this nutrients i have right now always stand in a dry room with around 20°C. I did some tests and the solution doesn’t smell bad if i a lid for cover. I have to do more tests. I will use a bucket and a lid and fill it with water and nutrients and add a airpump/stone to keep the solution oxygenated and i will cut a small hole in it so the old air gets out of the bucket and hopefully no dirt particles/dust gets into the solution, i also add a waterheater ti keep the solution around 18-20°C. The dropping leaves you said because of the plants doesn’t get much light down there could be also the problem. My plants are 70cm in height right now(just measured the height) and my 600watt lamps hang around 50-60cm over the top of the plants so it could be what you said with the lights doesn’t get to the bottom and the leaves fall off. From the top the plants looking really good for my taste. I also used less fertilizer now but it doesn’t stop with the lowest leaves and i did test the runoff ec again, i feed around 1.1ec and the runoff now dropped to 0.9-1.0ec so i think they are eating more fertilizer than water if im correct what im saying. I read that if the ec is lower in the runoff the plants eating more fertilizer than water and if this happens i should increase my nutrient strength. My other plants also show the problem right now and they didn’t had it before, but the tops if the plants fill 1.2×1.2m completely out and maybe its like you said the lights doesn’t get to the bottom ☺️ damn i would love to show you some pictures to get some tips what it could be ☺️ I don’t use calmag because advanced nutrients said it will interact with the ph perfect fertilizer and it will cause ph fluctuations so i do not use calmag and i also used an unbuffered coco mix and i did not have had a problem with my seedlings because many say if the coco isn’t buffered its causing calmag problems but i didn’t had a cal or mag deficiency. This problem looks more like a potassium deficiency because of the brown edges and the leaves turning yellow and fall off after some time. I will wait some more days to see if it stops and i don’t want to change the ec every few days because it could stress the plants i think. Do you know if thats right if the runoff ec is getting lower as what i fertilize the plants? Like i said i feed 1.1ec and the runoff is now 0.9-1.0 and that indicates that the plants eat more fertilizer than water and i should increase the feedings? I think i will upload a some pictures today and post it in here so you could take a look if you want ☺️ and i hope that the fertilizers are not gone bad because the grow shops stored them for a long time because nobody use them in Germany ?? and i will take some different fertilizers next time like canna or do you know a good fertilizer for growing in coco coir? I did use the advanced nutrients because of the ph perfect but i know how to use a ph meter and only used the AN to know if i have problems its not the ph. And the ph from AN stays at 5.5-5.8 all the time i use them now so the ph should not cause this symptoms i think and the runoff ec/ph is also in the same spot. Thanks again for the reply and have a nice weekend all of you ✌️i think i will buy some seeds n stuff from your website next time i need something because you always help me out with my problems ☺️✌️✌️
Hi i think i watered my seedlings too much in coco and the coco is waterlogged. Can you help me a little bit? I thought if i only water the coco/plants after the coco dry out the ec would get a huge spike and this could burn my roots so i watered it daily in a 0.5l pot. You say only 100ml for the plants but would this not lead to root burn because the coco is too dry and this damage the roots? I was feeding an ec for my seedlings around 0.6-0.8ec that what the feeding chart said but i watered the complete 0.5L pot every day with about 2-300ml of nutrient solution. I did many grows on biobizz soil and want to try something different and use coco now and the information about coco is huge and every person/grower/Website says different things how to feed/water coco.. I got to a website and this guys feed their seedlings every day in the first three waterings and increase the watering to three time per day after week one? The seedlings have poor root development and slow to no growth. The website this guys also had very small plants and their plants were more than a month old.. My plants in biobizz were three time as big as their coco plants. I think that the problem is too much water for young plants/seedlings. But im not sure if it damage the roots if i let it dry out.. Cant find any article about growing in coco which are right because everyone says different thinfs about growing in coco coir.. My humidity/temperature is dialed in because i did grows in soil for long time so the problem must be with my watering practice in coco or the nutrient strength i use for my seedlings. Greets
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Thanks for taking the time to reply. Wasn’t sure I would get one. Honestly it’s really appreciated. When I next start seedlings I will give them 50ml of water. I put that into a pot without a plant and the coco was nice and wet the whole way through. Not to the point though when squeezing it would create a whole puddle. So I think it seems the right amount to give for the small pot. I won’t water daily regardless like some suggest lol. I done that this time round and roots was terrible. I should water with 50ml again once the pot has lost just over half its weight when first watered? I have scales so can get it exact lol know it sounds ott. Also have you ever seen pots seem to lose the amount of roots it had? As in when you check the coco it’s like roots have disappeared? Would that likely be from under or over watering? Currently got plants in 6litre pots. Didn’t have the best roots when I potted up. I checked and roots was there, so thought wait until pot gets bit light and water again. Took 6 days and pots was still a little heavy to be honest. Thing is the plants was starting to look hungry. So gave them a litre and got some run off. When I checked a couple days later. There was less roots than when I first looked at them? Can’t work it out. Thing Is I kinda feel I gotta be watering sooner with heavier pots than I’d like now as the plants look hungry. It’ll only get worse if waiting days for the pots to dry. Was thinking maybe give them even less so pots get lighter quicker and can get more food into them? Have one plant I didn’t pot up as just wanted to use her to try get good roots. She looks lovely, nice shade of green and pots getting light in about 3 days. Looks bigger and healthier than the plants in 6 litre pots. Thing is she’s the same. I’ve checked her and isn’t no roots really wrapping the pot like you’d expect for a plant her size. Sorry it’s like a whole list of questions and problems. Always grow nice plants like I say. It’s just my veg time is also super slow due to the poor roots.
The containers or plant pots used with coco coir must have a good drainage system as the ability to drain excess water quickly and easily is crucial for proper nutrient uptake and to avoid rot root.
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Hey so after i had transplanted into 7L i watered the half with 2ml/1.2ec and the other half with 3ml/1.5-1.7ec. After three days every plant stopped with the dying leaves but i waited one more day if something change but every plant looked fine/fast growing/no dead leaves. So i watered all with 3ml/1.5-1.7ec again, i didn’t see that the plants with the lower ec were slower or so and the others with the higher ec looked the same. 2days ago i was looking for the roots coming out of the drainage holes, they have a huge root mass coming out of the holes. And what i noticed the leaves started to die again ?? and the leaves getting darker like last time. The days after the transplant the leaves stopped dying and the color turned to a normal green, not to dark not to light. Before the transplant the leaves started to turn too dark so i think it has to do with the water frequency. Like last transplant the plants started to dry out very quickly and now this also happens, two days ago they were not completely dry but the pots were light in weight like the last time before the transplant. Its not the nutrient strength i think because they would not have turned a normal green after the transplant and they had the same nutrient strength. I think it has to do with the watering frequency. If it’s getting too dry the unused salts like Nitrogen will accumulate and i noticed the ec in the runoff rises. Feeding with 1.6ec runoff is 2.0ec, i took the runoff reading yesterday and today i was feeling two times per day so they don’t get too dry in the morning like the last times and to find out if it helps to stop the dying leaves and to bring the ec a little bit down. If in three to four days it does not work i will flush the coco and go back to 2ml/1.2ec and see if this helps. I think if the runoff ec is getting too high in the growth stage the plants will show problems and to bring the runoff back to normal it would be the best to increase the waterings to flush out the leftover salts and they don’t dry out too fast what also leads to salt accumulation. If they had problems with Nitrogen they would have showed the problems last time after i transplanted and the leaves would be dark and dead if i didn’t used a lower ec but they didn’t had problems after the transplant and only show symptoms of Nitrogen toxicity after they start to dry out more quickly. So i will see if this helps and the plants stop with this problems and maybe im feeding near the N toxic limit and after they dry out more salts accumulate and then they show the symptoms again so i think if they don’t get to dry and the salts dont accumulate they will be fine. I also could use less nutrients and only feed one time a day and would need a flush after some days if the ec is getting to 2.0 in the runoff. Would be easier with lower feeding i think but I want to know if im at the limit with the Nitrogen and if it helps increasing the waterings. If it helps i know how much the plants tolerate and can make a notice for the next grow and then i think i would feed between the 1.2-1.6 ec and would not have any problems and only look at the runoff ec that doesn’t get over 1.8ec and would be fine and can water only one time a day and have no stress at all. One thing i found is that the watering can i use to feed/mix my nutrients has some leftover on the walls, the two parts nutrients from AN has some organic and saltsi n the part A and the part B contains only salts, the part A smells like molasses and is Brown in color the part B doesn’t smell and has no color. The nutrient containers show the brown stuff in part a at the opening(where i take out the nutrients with my syringe) and the part b has some salts there and the brown stuff on the watering can must be the part a stuff that dried out over the last weeks after i watered the plants and let the can stand overnight night and filled it with water again. So this leftover in the can could also lead to problems if some of this stuff getting into the new water and i make the new solution some of it could be solved again and that would lead to too much Nitrogen. The part A only contains different Nitrogen salts and Calcium and some micro nutrients if im right. But if this accumulation in the can was also after i transplanted it would have shown the Nitrogen problem from the start after the transplant. Or this accumulated salts in the can did accumulated in the coco after some time like last time before the transplant and showed the problems only after some weeks because it did accumulate slowly in the coco and after the transplant the fresh coco didn’t show the problems because in the new coco no accumulated salts were in there and now after nearly two weeks it also started to accumulate in the coco and is now showing the same symptoms. I think it could be it because this leftover in the can would lead to a unbalanced nutrient solution and the plants showing toxicity signs because the solution has too much Nitrogen that dissolved all the time i made a new mixture. I cleaned the watering cans today and the water turned really brown like if i would mix the part a in the water ? i was cleaning every thing near the grow tent and in the grow tent but didn’t take a look into the watering cans ? I will get bucket or something like this to mix the nutrients so i can clean it regularly and be safe there’s no leftover that could lead to a unbalanced solution. I use darkblue cans and you don’t see this leftover if you don’t take a look where its sunny or enough light to see whats inside there ? and my hands don’t fit easily in the can openings so i will use some nutrient tank in the next days ? Would be so stupid if that was the problem but its always good to have a clean tank/can so the solution don’t accumulate salts from the last mixture and the new solutions don’t get to a toxic level of some minerals. I topped my plants two days ago and will try some LST to bring all the shoots/branches in the same height and they hopefully fill out the complete grow area. I had always too many plants in the box and the humidity was getting out of control in the flowing stage so i always had to cut some lower leaves and branches away but that only helped a little bit and with less plants that have the same heights and enough branches i will get the same harvests and there are not soo much branches/leaves like 20plants that had no low stress training and were 1.5 meters in height ? i never did that before with the topping and lst and i just let the plants grow like in nature but it always was a tent full of huge plants and millions of leaves/buds touching each other and bringing my humidity in the danger zone. I hope with less plants/topping/lst i can bring the humidity more down and the buds don’t start to touch each other if im lst in the first two weeks of flower and bring the shoots in the same height and cut out the lower branches/leaves that only turn into popcorn buds. I will write back in some days what the problem was or if im still have the problems. The accumulated salts in the watering can or the accumulated salts in the coco because of drying out too fast should be the problem i think. The watering can gets a clean up every five days or if they have leftover again tomorrow i will use something different to mix the solution or clean it every day until i got a good nutrient tank and can wash the leftover away more easily. ✌️✌️✌️
Tim Alchimia 2019-11-08
Hey Crip, good to hear from you again, thanks for giving us the full story! It sounds like you’re figuring things out over there, and I think that if you keep up the same analytical approach, you’ll definitely hit on the root cause of the problem. AFTER Discussing the issue with a colleague here at work, we both agree that an EC of 2 is far too much, and 1.5 should be the absolute maximum EC reading. It definitely sounds like the main problem is Nitrogen toxicity, possibly exacerbated by the low humidity in the early growth period. One thing I don’t think I’ve asked you before is about the water you’re using. Are you using Reverse Osmosis water, tap water, or spring water? Have you tested the EC of the plain water, before adding any nutrients? I’ve got a feeling that the AN charts are calibrated for RO water, with an EC of 0, so if you’re using another type of you’ll need to measure the EC and to compensate for any potential variation. On a side note, I know plenty of experienced growers that aways use half the stated dose on the bottle or in the schedule and they swear by this approach! As for the humidity, I think you’d be doing yourself a great favour by getting a humidifier. I think anything you can do to create the perfect growing conditions is a good idea, and humidifiers aren’t too expensive an investment, relatively speaking. That’s an interesting point you read regarding plants needing higher doses of nutrients if they’re under LED lights. I haven’t heard that before, I will have a look into it, but I would imagine that if you’re keeping a correct temperature in the grow tent, then the heat produced by the lamp itself shouldn’t have much influence. Please let us know how your experiments go, I’m looking forward to seeing how things turn out and if we can get to the bottom of this problem! All the best, happy growing mate!